as far as the question regarding ethnicity based sanghiyata is concerned, no one has to date given a plausible answer if it is necessary and how will it change the liver of the deprived?is the problem because of bad leadership or because of bad people??thats the question

Fedearlism based on Ethnic-identity?

Hell to the NO.

Period

जहाँ सम्म संघियता र बिशेष गरेर जातिय संघियताको सवाल छ , मेरो बिचारमा माओबादी र मधेसी दलको घाटीमा अड्किएको हड्डी भएको छ अहिलेको परिस्थितिमा. जुन अस्त्र (जातिय उत्पीडन अन्त्यको लागि आफ्नो राज्य नभई नहुने ) प्रयोग गरेर आफ्नो राजनीतिक अस्थित्व स्तापित गरे (अरु अस्त्र गौण राख्दा ) त्यो बुझाइमा आकाश जमिन फरक भैसकेको मेरो बुझाइ हो . तर पछि हट्न पनि नसक्ने अगी जान पनि नसक्ने स्थितिले गर्दा जति समय लम्बाउन सक्यो तेती नयाँ मौका आउन सक्ने निच सोचाइले यथास्थितिले निरन्तरता पाएको हो

अब मधेसको सवालमा पनि तेही हो | मधेस आन्दोलन जुन हिसाबले उठ्यो त्यो काठमाडौँलाइ मधेससंग जोड्ने र केन्द्रमा आफ्नो सहभागिताको लागि थियो | चतुर मधेसीनेताले आफ्नो 'राजनीतिक ब्यबसाय' स्तापित गराउने मौकाको रुपमा लिए र 'एक मधेस , एक प्रदेश' को नारा घुसाय (धर्म निरपेक्षता को सवाल ६२/६३मा छिराए जसरि) शितलहरले मधेसी जनता मरीरहंदा मधेसको लागि राजनीति गर्ने भन्नेहरु कति राहतमा जुटे त ?

जनजातिनेता हरुको ध्यय जनजातिको उत्थान भन्दा पनि राजनीतिक बिजिनेस चलाउनेमा मात्र केद्रित भएको भान हुन्छ | निषेधको राजनीति खेल्नु , यो जातिको आखाको गुच्चा खेल्छु भन्नु पक्कै नेताका गुण होइनन् | जति धेरै राज्य त्यति धेरै राजनीतिक अवसर |

एकपटक आर्थिक हिसाबले कसरि संघ चलाउने बहस हुनु पर्छ | अस्ति एक मधेसी नेता भन्दै थिए "मधेस जानकी मन्दिरको भेटिले चलाउने ?" स्पेन जत्रो ठुलो अर्थतन्त्र त ऋणमा चल्नु पर्या छ | हाम्रोमा न औधोगीक बिकास छ न केहि ...उही पशुपतिको कृपाले चलेको भएको जस्तो पिउसो देसमा १०/१० प्रान्त किन चाहिएको होला ? कसरि धानिने होला ? अनि राज्यमा पहुच भनेको सरकारी पदमा सबै जातिको उपस्थिति मात्र हो र ? अहिले चाहिएको सबै नेपालिलाइ समान अधिकार चाहें त्यो शिक्षा होस् या स्वस्थ या ब्यबसाय | मुख्य चाहिएको कानुन को शासन न कि डर , धाक, धम्कि र पहुच बोलबाला | माओबादी युद्धले दशकौ पछि धकेलिएको नेपाललाइ आर्थिक क्रान्ति हो | नेपाल अर्काको देश बनाउन जनशक्ति उत्पातक देश मात्र बनेर बस्ने ?

Federalism based on Ethnic-identity
Would be a pretext to splitting the country into little pieces and let China and India gobble them up one by one(like Crimea). We need to have a strong central government before these hungry wanna be Politicians wanna cut the fugging cake to feed their ego(mailey esto garey bahnera dekhauna) and their pocket(a pat in the back). These fuggers need to put their nationality before their ethnicity. Sikkim justo kwappa khaidincha ani thaha paucha yo bheda haru ley...
Jun goru ko singh chaina tyeskai naam tiikhey..

Everything points to what you guys are saying, I am still trying to see if there's any legitimate reason at all. Bhaktey, what you said seems to be the case in general. It still is hard for me to believe that 100% of Maoists (and fringe parties) priority is to divide the country or play the game of divide and conquer. Not one of them have the leader who finds issues with this division? Perhaps the voice is muzzled, more likely: they value their party more than they value their country. But I want to hear from the both sides and am really looking for the reasoning from the other side.

As for Madhesi leaders, I really don't blame them for demanding one-madhesh. Throughout the history, they have been mocked, ridiculed and oppressed. Our President is a madhesi, but how many other top guns are there in higher position (non political) from madhes? I know after the "jana-yuddha," we have realized our mistakes and we want an inclusive country; but I cannot blame them from being cautious and possibly wanting their own sovereign state. They will demand it, but the democracy rule states the decision has to be made on the behalf of entire Nepal; last election has given the mandate to the leaders and clearly stated that Nepal prefers unified Nepal, not divided (that too ethnically).

Any viewpoint from the other side?

यस बिषयमा केही लेख्दिन भनेर बसेको थिएँ , लेख्नै पर्ने भयो | बुँदागत रुपमा राख्दछु |

१. जातिय राज्यको एक शुत्रिय माग गर्दै काठमाडौं लगायत नेवार बाहुल्य क्षेत्रमा नेपा राष्ट्र पार्टीले चुनाव लडे , काठमाडौका कूल नेवार मतदाताको केवल २.५ % भोट पाए | संघियताको पक्षधर संघिय समाजबादी पार्टी ,माओबादी लगायतले अर्को १८ % भोट पाए | अब भन्नुस ९७.५ प्रतिशत नेवारले अस्विकार गरेको नेवा राज्य के नेपा राष्ट्र पार्टीले माग्दैमा दिनु पर्ने ?? के लोकतन्त्र भनेको २.५ % ले ९७.% प्रतिशतलाइ धम्किको भरमा राज गर्ने ??
२. राष्ट्रपति मधिसे, प्रधान न्यायधिस मधिसे, उप राष्ट्रपति मधिसे, सभामुख जनजाति के यही हो बाहुनबाद ??

३. गाउँ गाउँ को म्याथ र साइन्स टिचर जम्मै तराइ को , अमिन ९०% तराइ को , कुनै जमानामा ओभर सियर र स्वास्थ साहायक जम्मै तराइबासी | रुची जम्मै सजिलै पैसा कमाउने मा , अनि प्रशासनमा यथेष्ट उपस्थिति भएन भन्ने ??

४. हिमाल चढ्ने जम्मै शेर्पा , के हिमाल चढ्नेमा पनि मधिसे, बाहुन., दलित र नेवारलाई कोटा दिनु पर्ने ??
५. भारतीय सेना र ब्रिटिश सेनामा लाहुएर हुने अधिकांश राइ लिम्बु गुरुङ छन् , के तिनमा पनि नेवार मधिसे र बाहुन क्षेत्रीको कोटा चाहिन्छ भनेर किन न भन्ने ??

नेपाल को भू बनौट र जातिय संस्कार र व्यवहार अनुसार आ-आफ्नो पेसामा लागेका छन् , विभिन्न जाति जनजातीहरु | त्यसलाई खल्बलाएर, केही गर्न नसकेका निकम्महरुको कुण्ठालाई बालेर राजनिती गरेका मात्र हुन् |
( ज्ञातब्य होस् , यो राहुल भाइ कथित जनजाति मध्ये कै हुन् )

poor nepali just being held by hostage by bunch of national and international interests.

USA interest: Want to keep Nepal as unstable as possible so that it can have a huge monopolistic operation in Nepal to keep an eye on two largest economies in asia., India and China. This is all about money for USA.

European Interest: Strictly voicing for Vatican...their goal is to destroy the ruling class leaving no class good enough for ruling the country and destroying the culture and religion to give room for Jesus.

Indian Interest: Have one pradesh on his side to deal with so that he would not have to pay 2-3 state ministers on his border side to get his way in Nepal Politics.

Madhesi Interest: Making the whole tarai belt under their control by Yek Madhes yek pradesh so that they make their masters (india) happy and be able to flip Nepal government anytime they want with Nakabandhi of Tarai. Basically Yek madhesh Yek pradesh gives them more power.

UML interest: Fear of Madhesi interest above. They don;t want to make Madhese more powerful so that they can flip their government. They are working hard to downsize Madhesi power so that when they get to it, they are not in Mercy of Madhesi to stay on it.

Kangressi Interest: Almost same as UML and are fearful of Madhesi too.

Mao Interest: Since the last election defamed result. These monkeys are scrambling to figure out how they would be relevant again. There is no way they can get votes to win again so they will use Madhesi and other Janajati for their cause and try to be the president again.

Nepali Janata interest: NONE...they are too busy belonging to one group ([party) and hating the other. The hatred alone gets them going forever and there is just no need to sit down and think.

Nicely written by SAP DUDE

What are the things that our leaders are trying to achieve after this ethnic division? Is this division conducive for Nepali's peace and prosperity? Is this ethnic division really a division in a sense that this division really exist as a solid division? Or is this division purely psychological? Where is this division happening: in the human mind or somewhere else? These are some elemental questions that needs to be scrutinized before even taking about Federalism Based on Ethnic Division.

Now, let's try to understand two fundamental words in this context which are: 1) Ethnicity and 2) Division.

1) What is this thing called Ethnicity? Is it real in a sense that this thing called ethnic groups are eternal no matter what? Why do we have different ethnic classes at all? In other words, what is this tendency in us that is creating a strong impulse to diversify ourselves? Is it (ethnicity) necessary for life to continue? Will our survival be at peril if we resist to diversify ourselves?

2) What is 'Division'? Leaders are trying to divide Nepal according to ethnic groups. But, what is this division? Is it real in a sense that this so called division really exist as a solid reality or is this division merely a psychological division? Can we divide anything at all? Is this possible?

Wherever there is an object, we give it a name. Name and form co-exist. You can name the object anything you like. These nomenclature have a tremendous practical purpose in our practical life. I do not want to confuse people by saying milk and wanting rice instead. When I say milk, the vendor will give me a white liquid which I can use it to make tea and fulfill my desire to drink tea. When I say rice, the vendor will give me some white solid stuff, which I have to cook and it fulfills my satiety. Milk can be rice and rice can be milk! It is very simple. Just exchange the name of two and let the mind know that name has been exchange and from today onwards when I say milk, the vendor will give me a solid white stuff which I have to cook. The universe is like this. It exist as a name and a form. Wherever there is a form, there is also a name just for the practical purpose. These things do not have eternal value. They are born, they live for some time, and then they die. That which doesn't exist at the beginning, that which doesn't exist at the end, also doesn't exist in the middle whatsoever. The division based on ethnic groups is also like this. If there is no integrating principle, then the very act of dividing can be catastrophic. Should I believe that Nepalese leaders understand what this integrating principle is?

Rahulvai, was hoping for your input. Agree with everything, but would like to point two things. First, should we agree on addressing people from Madhesh as "Madheshi" not "Madhise", better yet they are Nepali...so far.
Second, Madhesis getting the position of teacher, medical assistant etc doesn't provide much proof against the argument that this group was not neglected. We are going through a very sensitive time and last thing we need to do is not learn from our mistakes of the past. Much respect for your input specially coming from a member of "janajati" community.

SAP, some of those theories are probably mere theories. Others are reality. I disagree about Nepali janata interest. Although most of us do not afford any pressure on how the government is run, politics is a matter of great interest to us. Go to any village and start a political discussion and you will get valuable insights; we live, breathe and talk politics all the times. We also have issued a mandate to the elected government not to divide the country-whether this mandate is carried out or not is a different story.


______ well said.

As a spectator they can't fool me that this is not about the federalism with ethinicity.

Madhesis are pretty clear on what they want. They want all of tarai belt under one Mukhya Mantri so that they can choke rest of the country for their political gain. This power will make them relevant in Nepal's politics and this is also what their sponsers (India) wants.

Yemaale and Kangressi are also clear about what they want. They will refuse Yek Madhesh because they dont want to come under anyone's pressure while they rule Nepal. They want Nepal to be their play ground without any risks.

If Mao had people's mandatem, they would have been the ones to say no to Yek Madhes because they would want multiple access to the borders. But since they do not have people's mandate they will side with Madhesis in hopes that Madhesis and janajaatis will vote them once again for presidency if they fall for their causes. We know real madhesis do not care about how many pradehses and the Madhesi leaders do not represent Tarai either. You would if CKs, Guptas, and Yadavs cared about Madhesh they would be collecting blankets for their people to survive this winter. Rather, people in ktm are collecting blankets for poors in Madhesh.

The funniest of all are teh Ang Kaajis and Pahade Janajatis...while the issue has clearly been few districts in tarai they are busy singing the monkey song of federalism. They have not said anything on what they think of the 5 districts in issue yet. Not sure how they feel about getting Nakabandhi from Tarai as they are all in pahaad.

The bottom line is that no party is refusing the federalism they all want to give federalism but to
hear this party and that party is against federalism is all Bullshit. They are not agreeing on the division of the state. No ethinic party is coming forward and saying that they are not agreeing of the shape of the federalism but since it victimizes more by saying they dont want to recognize us as an ethnicity they resort to that.

Giordano, nice video, but I have lost all the faith in courageous nepalis. Sometimes I even wonder if "bir nepali" was just a hoax fabricated to inflate the little ego and pride we have in our small and almost negligible history. We have kept quite against our own corrupt leaders including Maoists who have been playing us like a ping-pong ball that I wonder if we have the courage, energy or will to stand against a foreign power.

Kiddo, thanks for bringing up Ang Kaji. He is giving Indian states like Gujrat and Tami Nadu as example for ethnic based federalism. But why should we do like India? India is not perfect, far from it. India has caste problems far more worse than we have in Nepal. Instead of speaking against caste discrimination and look for ways to eradicate it, Ang Kaji is trying to make it worse. If we are trying to create "New Nepal", we should have no divisions based on ethnicity in it. The political leaders should be the first ones to speak for social harmony. In few generations we should be able to forget what castes mean.

In my humble opinion, this is one of the most important threads in Sajha. Thank you for initiating this discussion. Very thoughtful insights from many Sajha friends on what plagues our country. Regrettably, I do not have a real grasp of how federalism will work or should work, neither do I know about people’s current mandate. What I want to talk about, here, is one of the malady of our Madhesi culture. I come from a Madheshi part of our country. Which is why, here, I want to invite my Madhesi friends (not that I want to exclude Pahadi folks) to put forward the Madhesi perspective to my question. Something that gave me restless nights when I had ethos many years back when I was in Nepal. Now I am apathetic to Nepal’s malaise. I feel bad but that’s what I’ve become. I saw grand enthusiasm about CK Raut in my madhesi friend’s social networks. My friends quote him incessantly and support his idea of independent Madhesh. I do not want to go there now (I mean, to that idea of Madhesi independence, not yet). What I want to talk about here is the grand malaise. The Gorilla in the room. “The Daughter”. No – not even the caste system, not the language, not the discrimination that my Madhesi peers had to face from the feudal society etc. I just want to talk about Madhesi “daughter”. It was sad to see how a learned man like CK Raut did not even mention about this grand malaise in our culture. I am not trying to undermine his agenda but I am highlighting a point that to ignore the Madhesi cultural plague of undermining our ‘daughter’s strength’ is disgraceful. The ‘Daughter’ is denigrated. Where are my Madhesi sisters in US, in UK, in Australia? I married my Madhesi wife and brought her in a dependent visa. That’s it. All my Madhesi Doctor, Engineer and Chartered Accountant friends from Madhesh are “males”. All of them married Madhesi daughters and that’s how the ‘female’ Madhesis that I know of came to US, UK and Australia. This might seem trivial and a nonsensical point but one small but cynical observation of my own society. I am not saying that my Pahadi female friends are eulogizing Vagina Monologues in Kennedy Center but pointing out that Madheshi culture is far behind in granting our daughters and mothers the rights they deserve in education, marriage, property rights and sexual expressions compared to rest of other cultures. The ‘Dowry’ is a killer. There are other very similar and pervasive problems that ails our country as a whole - like education, access to finance, job opportunities, health etc. These are universal economic problems irrespective of terai, pahad, himal, khas, bhot, madhes etc. However, in my humble observation the gender based discrimination problem is more deeply seated in Madhesi culture compared to other peer cultures of Nepal. This ails Bihar and UP more compared to rest of the India. Gender discrimination will relatively hurt us more and this cultural aspect of Madhesi society should be first at war rather than a demand for the Federal State. But the Pundits and Mullahs of our society are ill equipped to observe this weakness and I am a coward who cannot even write a logical essay on plight of my sisters in Terai, Pahad and Himal. Your take.

Kaalidaas,

I think the culture of feudalism/Slavery and conservatism goes hand in hand with all forms of discrimination. In any kind of discrimination, the weakest of all is abused the most. The weakest being the one that is most deprived of rights, education, and wealth.

It does seem like women, children, poors, and lower castes are in worse shape in Tarai than in pahaad and this has to do with the more conservatism and feudalism that exists in Tarai.

In a very cynical way i am thinking that this whole Tarai as one state demand has something to do with that as well. The Jamindaars, sexist men, riches, and the upper caste of Tarai want to keep on abusing their people to themselves. These so called Tarai leaders are somehow giving an impression that their disfunctional society is somehow to be blamed the Pahade for.

Overall, nobody cares about anybody and whatever they are chanting is all politics regarding federalism. Regardless of pahade or Tarai basi chanting.

पश्चिमाहरुले नेपालमा जातीय युद्धको विजारोपण गर्दैछन्: विप्लव
सेतोपाटी संवाददाता काठमाडौं पुस २८ print

395

47

0
Google +
442

Get News Alerts

आईएनजीओले डलरमा खरिद गरी जातीय मुद्दा उचालेको निष्कर्ष
माओवादी नेता नेत्रबिक्रम चन्दले वर्तमान सन्दर्भमा उठेको जातीय संघीयताको मागले देशमा सामाजिक सद्भावमा खलल पुग्ने दावी गर्दै पार्टी कार्यकर्ताहरुलाई उक्त मागको पछि नलाग्न आग्रह गरेका छन्l
दाङ्गको तुलसीपुरमा भएको नेकपा माओवादीको पहिलो राष्ट्रियभेलाको समापन गर्दै चन्दले पश्चिमी देशहरुले पैसा खन्याएर जातीयताको मागलाई उचालेको आरोप पनि लगाएl

वर्गीय मुक्ति भएमात्र जातीय मुक्ति हुने उल्लेख गर्दै चन्दले अहिले संविधानसभाभित्र र बाहिर उठेको संघीयताको मागले जातीय द्वेष फैलिने र देश टुक्रने तर्क गरेl

सेतोपाटीसँग कुरा गर्दै पार्टीका केन्द्रीय सदस्य गुणराज लोहनीले भने 'जनावदविना संघीयताको कुनै अर्थ रहन्न भन्ने पार्टीको आधिकारिक धारणा होl वर्गीय मुक्ति अन्तर्गतमात्र जातीय मुक्ति सम्भव हुन्छl जनवादी व्यवस्थाबिना संघीयताको अर्थ छैन।'

पार्टीका कार्यकर्ताहरुको प्रश्नको जवाफ दिने क्रममा चन्दले पश्चिमाहरुले 'डलर बाँडेर' देशमा जातीय सद्भाव खल्बल्याएको आरोप लगाएका थिएl 'एनजिओ, आइएनजिओमार्फत हरिया नोट बाँडेर जातीय नारा उचालिँदैछl यसको पछाडि तपाईंहरु नदौडिनुस्,' उनले कार्यकर्ताहरुलाई भनेका वाक्य उद्धर्त गर्दै एक कार्यकर्ताले भने 'पश्चिमाहरुले नेपालमा जातीय युद्धको विजारोपण गर्दैछन्l'
नेता चन्दले वर्गीय मुक्तिका लागि लड्ने कम्युनिष्टहरुले जातीय नारा उचाल्नु दुखद् भएको बताएl 'अशोक राइजस्ता जीवनभर कम्युनिष्ट रहेका व्यक्तिहरु समेत डलरवादीहरुको पछि लाग्नुभएको छl यो दुर्भाग्यपूर्ण कुरा हो,' चन्दको भनाई उद्धृत गर्दै उनले भने l

चन्दका अनुसार उनको पार्टीले पहिचानको मुद्दा सम्बोधन गर्ने तर, अहिलेको संघीयताको माग राज्य सत्तामा हालिमुहाली भएको वर्गकै वर्चस्व हुने हुँदा आफू यस्तो संघीयताको बिपक्षमा उभिएको बताएका थिए l उनले अहिलेको संघीयताको 'गुदी नभएको केराको बोक्रा' माथिको लडाईं भएको भन्दै यस्तो संघीयताले जनतालाई मुक्ति दिनुको साटो जातीय द्वेष फैलाउने तर्क गरेl 'पहिले जनवादी सत्ताको लागि पार्टी लड्नुपर्छ, अनि मात्र हुन्छ जातीय मुक्ति,' चन्दले भने l

जातीय संघीयताको माग राख्दै पुष्पकमल दाहाल नेतृत्वको एनेकपा माओवादीले संवैधानिक प्रक्रियाबाट संविधान जारी गर्न नदिने निर्णय लिएको छl क्रान्तिकारी कम्युनिस्ट पार्टीको नेतृत्व आफ्नो हातमा आएको दावी गर्दै चन्द नेतृत्वको माओवादी पार्टीले 'सत्तामा खाईपाई गर्दै आएको बर्गकै हालिमुहाली हुने जातीय संघीयता' देशलाई नचाहिने भन्दै यसको विपक्षमा उभिएको होl जातीय पहिचानभन्दा वर्गीय पहिचान मुख्य हुने बताउँदै चन्दले 'पश्चिमाहरुको षडयन्त्रको पछि नलाग्न' आग्रह गरेl

एनेकपा एमाओवादीबाट फुटे लगत्तै मोहन बैद्य नेतृत्वको नेकपा माओवादी पार्टीले पनि पश्चिमाहरुले नेपालमा जातीय नारा उचालेको र एमाओवादी पार्टी त्यसको शिकार भएको आरोप लगाएको थियोl

स्रोतका अनुसार आइतबारको एमाओवादी शीर्ष बैठकमा पहिचानको पक्षमा अहिले भइरहेको आन्दोलनको पनि समीक्षा भएको थियो । यो आन्दोलन सफल हुन्छ त ? भन्ने प्रश्नसमेत नेताहरुले उठाएका थिए । -
See more at: http://www.onlinekhabar.com/2015/01/231156/#sthash.mHV5UCO3.dpuf